Wireless Xbox360 controller on a PC, without the commercial dongle
Update: I updated the post to mention using two 1N4001 or equivalent diodes instead of just one. Two diodes in series take the voltage down to almost exactly 3.3V, which is the required voltage for the RF board. I also added actual photos of the wiring now, as I've redone it (hence the messy wires from re-soldering Etc.)
Update 2: It seems that syncing is impossible directly from the RF module and PC, but if the wireless controller you use was already synced with the RF module, and hasn't been re-synced with another Xbox since, it will work. However, I am working with another modification I found which adds LED and sync enable functions by means of a serial connection with a PIC16F628A μC. You can find the related forum post here: Link (and see how my thrown together version of it looks [here] and [here]. Messy, I know :P).
![[here]](http://diru.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/20110307_xbox360_rf_module_wiring_2.jpg){kind=link}
![[here]](http://diru.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/20110307_xbox360_rf_module_wiring_3.jpg){kind=link}
Update 3: Got the Arduino hooked up to the RF module instead for now. Working perfectly. Check it out. [link]
Update 4: Alternative means of syncing mentioned in the comments by George.
Update 5: Further testing on alternative syncing method shows how non-play & charge kit compatible peripherals can be synced -without- a microcontroller. Thanks, Pat.
--
Yesterday I had a thought - I don't like having a wire to the Xbox360 controller I use for games on my PC. As I'm tight on cash right now I figured I'd have a quick look around to see if there was a way to use a wireless controller on the PC without going out and buying the official wireless transceiver. I was thinking that there may be some other RF transceiver that could be modified or adapted to work with it. As it happens, there -kind of- is.
Now if you're like me, and have a spare wireless controller sitting around, it's likely you have a dead red ringed Xbox 360 sitting in a cupboard. This is the key to getting the controller working with a PC. The wireless transceiver in the Xbox can be made to work with a little modification. Well, I say modification but I really mean little more than soldering a few wires and altering a .inf file. Let's get on to it:
What you'll need:
- Dead/Red Ringed Xbox 360 you don't mind cannibalising.
- Any old USB cable you don't mind cutting.
- Two diodes - a couple of 1N4001 or equivalents will do. Basically it's just there for a forward voltage drop WHICH IS VITAL (unless you don't mind burning the board out and killing your USB controller).
- A soldering iron.
- Solder.
- A brain.
Taking the Xbox 360 apart:
I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here. Anandtech.com has a perfectly good explanation of how to do this. Take a look here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/1864/inside-microsoft-s-xbox-360/3
Pro tip: Instead of a small plastic knife that they say to use to ping open the case, you can either buy a tool for it, make one out of an old CD/DVD spindle cover, or just rip the damn thing open with a screwdriver (after all, it's dead right?).
The part you're looking for:
It's the board on the front of the machine where the ring and power button are. It's held on by 3 screws, so be sure to pop the little plastic part off to find the third screw. Don't go trying to pry it off like I almost did. Once the screws are out it just unplugs. And that's your part.
The soldering part:
As you're reading this and have an interest in it I'll assume you know how to cut, strip, and tin your wires, so I'll not bother with that part. Instead I'll assume you're sitting there with an RF board, a USB cable ready for soldering, a diode, and a hot soldering iron. Basically, follow the picture (click for bigger image):
And make it look like this:
Beginner's mistake/brain fart moment warning: Make sure the diode is the right way around.
I chose to cut the diode legs down a fair bit and soldered it off to the left of pin 1, along the bottom edge of the RF module. You might like that idea, you might not. It's up to you how you solder it. I could have been neater, but I honestly didn't see much point. I'm not going to make a project box for it or anything, and it'll be hidden away somewhere so practicality > looks.
I will mention again that the diodes are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. The whole board runs on 3.3V while USB standard is 5V. The diodes that you put in series on the power line will lower the voltage to tolerable levels for the board - almost exactly 3.3V, to be honest (my multimeter is showing 3.34V). From what I've read in comments in various places the RF board likes to burn out quite spectacularly without a diode in place, taking the USB controller it's connected to with it. I was paranoid enough about it to actually test the unit on my old Macbook (that I neither care about nor use) before trusting it on my main machines.
Once you have that all soldered up, you have yourself a wireless dongle for your Xbox 360 wireless controller, something like this:
Congratulations. Now for the software.
The software part:
This bit isn't all that scary. You just need to modify the .inf file that comes with the official Microsoft drivers to allow for the different PID of the RF controller of the Xbox 360. First, if you don't have it already, download the Xbox 360 Accessories Software for your operating system from the Microsoft gaming software download site, and install it. Now, before plugging the RF module in, you need to do that modifying I mentioned. Head over to c:\Program Files\Microsoft Xbox 360 Accessories\ (or wherever you installed it to) and make a backup of Xusb21.inf before opening it in your favourite text editor (Notepad++ is nice for it's ini support with collapsing headers etc).
The parts you're going to modify are under the headers [MSFT.NTx86.6.0], [MSFT.NTamd64.6.0], [MSFT.NTx86], and [MSFT.NTamd64].
What they'll look like/similar to:
%XUSB21.DeviceName.Wired%=CC_Install, USB\Vid_045E&Pid_028E
%XUSB21.DeviceName%=CC_Install, USB\Vid_045E&Pid_0719
%XUSB21.DeviceName.Wired%=CC_Install, USB\MS_COMP_XUSB10
%XUSB21.DeviceName%=CC_Install, USB\MS_COMP_XUSB20
%XUSB21.DeviceName.Jump%=CC_Install, USB\Vid_045E&Pid_028F
What you need to change them to:
%XUSB21.DeviceName.Wired%=CC_Install, USB\Vid_045E&Pid_0291
%XUSB21.DeviceName%=CC_Install, USB\Vid_045E&Pid_0291
%XUSB21.DeviceName.Wired%=CC_Install, USB\UNKNOWN
%XUSB21.DeviceName%=CC_Install, USB\UNKNOWN
After you've saved the changes, go ahead and plug in the RF module. Chances are it will complain that drivers can't be found. Cancel out of the hardware wizard and head over to the device manager and find the Unknown USB Device, or whatever it is your flavour of Windows has decided to call it. You'll know which one it is by the yellow !triangle! (and if you don't have a clue what I'm on about, what are you doing trying to hack an Xbox component on to a PC in the first place?). Give the device a right click and update it's drivers, but tell it you have a disk and navigate to the Xusb21.inf you modified. It might complain about unsigned drivers, it might not, but if it does just tell it to continue. At the end of it all you'll have an Xbox 360 Controller for Windows device with a Hardware Id of USB\VID_045E&PID_0291 in your Device Manager. If not, reboot.
After all that, try syncing your Wireless controller with the unit. With any luck you should have a controller showing in your gaming devices. Give it a quick test with the diagnostics, maybe calibrate it etc.
And you're done. On to wireless gaming. (o/
Any questions feel free to ask in the comments below and I'll see what I can do to help.
July 11th, 2011 - 14:18
kan you do this for the ps3 instead of a computer as would you would be a ledgend
July 11th, 2011 - 15:12
Unfortunately, probably not. The PS3 lacks the driver support for the module. The only way I could think of doing it would be to add an extra abstraction layer to convert the RF module output to Bluetooth, and literally emulate a Dualshock controller. That would require a crapload more reverse engineering of both the module, and Dualshock. Given time, maybe, but ultimately you’d end up paying more for the components than the controllers are worth.
Alternatively, maybe, when custom firmwares are more predominant for the PS3, someone can make driver support for the RF module.
July 12th, 2011 - 02:17
thanks only asked as power a have a controller similer to this with a usb
dongle
July 22nd, 2011 - 07:47
There are drivers out there to make a ps3 controller work with a usb Bluetooth adapter.
July 22nd, 2011 - 16:27
There are, yes, but I’m pretty sure he was asking about using an Xbox 360 controller on a PS3, not a PS3 controller on a PC.
February 4th, 2012 - 00:32
OTGhost, then the ps3 probably has some sort of hid driver you can use to connect it. It would be allot more work and would rely on one of the drivers it does have, and you converting the signals in software in the otghost and piping it out the device in the format the ps3 driver supports. Allot more work but feasible.
July 22nd, 2011 - 07:41
If you have a play and charge kit you do not need to do the extra soldering to make it sync. plug the controller into the play and charge kit and turn it on while your homemade dongle is hooked up and it will sync by itself.
July 22nd, 2011 - 16:30
Cool, I did not know that. Is this confirmed by you yourself, or something you’ve read? Also, do you know how it works? I wasn’t aware that the PC drivers could actually communicate with the module in that way, considering even the Xbox uses a separate method away from USB to send it commands.
July 22nd, 2011 - 21:06
Yes I confirmed this myself.
August 24th, 2011 - 22:39
this does work i just confirmed it as well. so no need to go through the trouble to get the sync function to work. unless of course you want it to.
and the software change just to clarify, line 5 you do delete out of each part. just incase anyone isn’t sure.
August 5th, 2011 - 20:29
I have a ATMEGA328P-PU on my Ardunio Duemilanove and was just curious what pins I could use to setup this up.
Thanks for your work
August 5th, 2011 - 20:58
You can use any of the digital I/O pins available. The code doesn’t use any pin specific or hardware functions (other than serial, which can easily be removed as it’s just there for debugging/notification).
My code uses pins 2, 3, and 4.
August 8th, 2011 - 04:42
I noticed you say module pin 5 – 7 in your code which pins are 5 – 7? Is that the bottom row from left to right?
Thanks.
August 8th, 2011 - 16:01
Yep, that’s right.
August 13th, 2011 - 18:48
Is there any way to mod the drivers so you can plug use a wireless controller w/ the play and charge kit as a gaming controller? i’ve been forum searching like crazy and this seems like the closest anyone has come.
May 6th, 2012 - 21:38
it works this way any way =]
September 1st, 2011 - 10:10
Excelent Tut i done this and it works brilliant, Alltho i used 3 diodes to bring the voltage to 2.7v and have not had any problems even with the distance it will work at, Also removed the plug casing on the other side and soldered the wires straight through the board. Thanks very much for this !!!! :)
September 1st, 2011 - 20:41
Cool. Glad it works. :)
October 30th, 2011 - 18:18
XBOX 360 RF MODULE + ARDUINO when d detailed thingy comin out?????? pls lemme know ASAP…..
October 30th, 2011 - 18:23
Detailed thingy? I’m not sure I understand…
November 5th, 2011 - 18:12
Hi
My rf module isn’t turning on but the computer beeps/sounds when i plug it in. I did this befor and it worked perfct but this is the second rf module i’ve tried today. Any tips?
Thanks.
November 6th, 2011 - 01:43
Depends on what you mean by not turning on. If the computer acknowledges the hardware, and loads the drivers, it’s “on”. The module itself won’t show any visible signs of being powered at all without additional circuitry.
If you mean your controller isn’t working with the module, check out the ways to sync the controllers suggested by others in the comments (links to the specific comments are in the updates at the top of the post).
December 5th, 2011 - 05:43
Followed Everything but it keeps saying the best driver for this is already installed :/ any help i have everything matched up to the T.
December 5th, 2011 - 16:47
You might want to try removing the device from device manager after restarting into safe mode (tends to be extra sure it’s gone). Also, dredge through the oemxxx.inf/pnf files in your Windows\inf folder for any of the original files from the first time it added the drivers. If you find them, rename/delete/move them, and try again. Failing all that, rinse and repeat from step one.
December 22nd, 2011 - 20:13
Excellent tutorial – actually in english :)
I do have a question though before I actually do this, are there any other alternatives? Would it be possible to make a wireless controller into a wired with the remains of a wired controller?
The reason is, my PC controller is messed up (triggers loose, stick falls off) and I have two perfectly good wireless controllers.
December 22nd, 2011 - 20:25
You should be able to gut a wireless controller for parts if you’re a dab hand with a (de)soldering iron. The components -should- be the same between wired and wireless. It would be a lot of work, though (the analog sticks have 14 pins each to (de)solder, for example).
(And wireless is so much nicer anyway, right?)
December 29th, 2011 - 10:44
My 360 died, same E74 vid problem as many others. I reflowed 5 times but thanks to Microsoft not putting enough solder on the board, it finally quit for good. I was able to hack the RF board as you said. Now I have wireless control and I can stick to my new life philosophy, never give Microsoft another dime!
December 29th, 2011 - 17:11
Credit where credit is due: At least they made the RF module easy to hack, no? ;)
Glad you got it working. :D
January 8th, 2012 - 22:41
ok now reading and doing all this has just been awsome, i just now finished getting mine together, waiting for silicone to dry. now before i do the final plug n and test i was wondering will heat destroy/affect the diodes and instead of getting to crazy with soldering which im no good it i simply took the port itself from the xbox n wired everything to it so alls i have to do now is plug n my card and go, Right? should work that way im assuming but figured id get a second oppionion first thanks for this fourm as well probly the only one worth a darn
January 9th, 2012 - 05:43
On the one hand, heat will affect diodes, yes. But in this application, and unless you’re planning on leaving everything in an oven, it’s not going to be noticeable. Unless you’re worried that you’ve destroyed the diodes during soldering? (Which is unlikely unless you’re -really- club handed)
Beyond that, so long as you make the file adjustment, it’s time to plug it in and point it at the right driver, yes. Hope it works for you. And I’m glad you appreciate this page. :)
January 9th, 2012 - 22:19
ok so i pluged it in and did the files n every thing seems right, the comp no longer says unidentified hardware n yet it still seems to be missing something any suggestions?
January 9th, 2012 - 23:05
Depends on what you mean “missing something”. In your device manager you should have Microsoft Common Controller For Windows Class -> Xbox 360 Controller for Windows. If that’s showing up then it’s working as it should be. From there you need to sync the controller to the unit, if it isn’t already. If you haven’t synced the controller to any other Xbox, other than the one you took the RF unit out of, it should already work when you power it on.
January 10th, 2012 - 02:09
i get a this device can not start (code10)? and in my manager it shows me its there but when i goto the game controllers to configure it shows nothing? i at one point had it configured to this rf but then changed but i tried doing the could it be because i have windows 7 64-bit and not 32. also when i go into the driver details it shows the c:windows\system32\DRIVERS\xusb21.sys but it also has a c:windows\system32\Wdfcolnstaller01009.dll showing, is this normal? iv run out of ideas im pretty sure iv done every thing else and iv gone over and over this whole page to make sure i didnt miss something or tried all other forms. alright well iv spent the last hour double checking every thing n iv managed to get the yellow triangle gone in my devices but its still there in manager im totally clueless now.
January 10th, 2012 - 02:24
It won’t be a 64bit problem, as I’m running Windows 7 Pro 64bit myself. Both of those files are normal, too. A device not starting with code 10 is defined as an error that doesn’t have enough information to diagnose. Usually, however, it’s a driver not initialising correctly.
As annoying as it may be, I would suggest starting the software side of things from scratch again, as I suggested to DEATHoWAR further up in the comments. Also, double check your file modifications making sure that you replace the instances of 5 lines with 4 lines.
Give it a try and see how it goes. Hope you get it working.
January 29th, 2012 - 21:54
So I’m curious since its not super clear, With the UPDATE 4 Method of sync’ing is the Arduno required? or just donor usb cable and the diode?
I have a limed number of wireless controllers and 2 360′s plus thinking of this mod for the PC. so the controllers hop around to different homes.
January 29th, 2012 - 21:59
Unfortunately I can’t confirm this myself, as I don’t own a play and charge kit, but so far as I can tell it means you don’t need the Arduino. All I can say is to give it a try and see. To be honest, unless you have an Arduino sitting around, the play and charge kit is the cheaper option to try.
January 29th, 2012 - 22:11
Yep My thoughts too. I do have a play and charge which I could use to sync up to 4? wireless controllers and 2 RF boards so I think I might give it a go.
January 29th, 2012 - 22:14
I’d be interested to know the result.
February 3rd, 2012 - 17:36
Hi, I’ve done similar project some time ago. I’ve bought RF module from broken Xbox, attached ATTiny13 (you don’t have to use expensive Arduino or it’s clones ) with button for syncing to it, added diodes and connected to motherboard in my computer. Works like a charm.
If you want .c file or .hex file for attiny13, just tell me.
Photos:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1753596/IMG_9422.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1753596/IMG_9381.JPG
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1753596/IMG_9424.JPG
February 3rd, 2012 - 17:44
Aye, I have a similar setup now (albeit still external) using an ATTINY45. The Arduino was only originally used as a temporary stop-gap because I had a couple lying around.
February 4th, 2012 - 06:01
please share your code…
February 4th, 2012 - 17:25
Source code for Attiny13 (based on code found on other site): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1753596/xbox360.c
February 7th, 2012 - 23:26
I noticed you used the test points for hooking up the TINY. Do you have a list on what the TPs are or can you tell me what the equivalent pins on the modules input connecter are?
Thank You :)
KG
February 15th, 2012 - 09:01
Please send me .c and .hex files for attiny13
Thanks
February 3rd, 2012 - 17:50
Does this allow for multiple controllers as well?
February 3rd, 2012 - 17:52
As far as I’m aware it’s limited to 4 controllers. I’ll be honest and say I’ve never actually tried.
February 3rd, 2012 - 18:05
Yep, 4 controlers only.
February 3rd, 2012 - 18:16
4′s plenty :)
February 3rd, 2012 - 18:11
Did the same too 2 year ago! :D
Was pretty hard to get the syncing done with the arduino (not much information out there), but once rocking’, always rocking’!
February 3rd, 2012 - 23:18
Fantastic Hack.
But you may find you have limited the communication distance with the USB cable glued to the front of the Bluetooth antenna. Also, that antenna is directional. You will get the most distance with the antenna facing the controller.
February 4th, 2012 - 21:42
isn’t bluetooth. isn’t directional.
February 4th, 2012 - 01:17
So is there any way to get the lights on the RF to come on indicating which ones are connected? Is that something that would need to be done in the ATTiny/Arduino?
February 4th, 2012 - 03:17
It would be microcontroller based, yes ,unless the module works differently when syncing with the play and charge kit (which I don’t have so haven’t tested). The module -does- use the data pin bidirectionally, so it would be a case of figuring out what it’s sending back after a successful sync, if it does, or which command triggers it to tell you what’s connected. After that there are commands to tell it to turn on specific LEDs etc.
February 4th, 2012 - 18:33
Hey!
Just got this working. I too can confirm that the play and charge kit syncs the pad.
sorry about the shit quality. Filmed on an iphone :P
I didn’t use a diode. Instead the Arduinos 3.3v rail works flawlessly.
I used it on the same USB hub, I’m not sure if powering the board totally independently would work however.
Thanks man this saved me £14.
Excellent work!
February 5th, 2012 - 12:38
You might want to look out using the 3.3v rail from the Arduino to power the RF module. It’s only supposed to source ~50mA, and the RF board registers as 260mA according to the hub in device manager (although how accurate that is, I have no idea).
February 4th, 2012 - 18:33
Oops! Didn’t embed my video.
http://youtu.be/Vs0uiB0gD2U
February 5th, 2012 - 12:35
Nicely done. It’s good to have definitive proof of it finally. :D
February 5th, 2012 - 03:42
So I installed the diodes, but when I used my multimeter to test the voltage, it was still supplying 4.5 volts. Why is there no voltage drop?
February 5th, 2012 - 12:31
Not a clue. What diodes are you using?
February 7th, 2012 - 11:59
Hey,
Great build you’ve put together here. Stunning effort.
I’m always a guy for questions so do you have an email I can contact you on to fire a few your way?
Thanks
Ryan
February 7th, 2012 - 17:37
I do, yes. But if they’re questions about this particular hack I’d find it more productive to keep it in comments. That way everyone gets to share the wealth, so to speak.
February 9th, 2012 - 08:52
if you have a device that you cant plug in with the play and charge kit (to get it to sync without a microcontroller), plugging the kit into a controller will sync everything that is trying to sync! tested with my rock band 2 drum set.
February 9th, 2012 - 08:57
by the way, thank you for this tutorial this is wonderful! i love anything that keeps me from paying more microsoft tax (and i probably wouldve fried my stuff thinking the 5 volts was fine)
February 9th, 2012 - 17:17
And you’re very welcome. :D
February 9th, 2012 - 17:17
Now that is very cool to know. Thank you for sharing. :D
February 11th, 2012 - 02:27
Hi there.
I really enjoyed reading about your adventures with the RF module. Ive saved some up from broken Xboxes and snooped the Argon bus with a logic analyzer to try to figure out the commands. Do you mind if I port your work over to a PIC and give it a spin?
Also, I noticed youre storing commands as an array of binary values. While there is nothing wrong with this, storing them in hex is more straightforward when looking st the commands. To loop through the byte and set a data pin accordingly (pseudo-SPI almost), just do something like this:
unsigned char cSync = 0×04;
int i;
for (i = 7; i > -1; i–;)
{
DATA = ((cSync & (1 < 0) ? 1 : 0;
CLOCK = 1;
CLOCK = 0;
}
We loop from 7-0, bit-shifting a 1 7-0 times to the left, and mask the command byte with this to check whether the corresponding bit is set or not.
February 11th, 2012 - 15:17
Thanks for the tip, although a side note would be that the RF module dictates the clock, not the uC. Aside from that, feel free to port the code over. I would be interested to see it after (when I started with microcontrollers I played with PICs for a while but found AVR easier to work with).
Also, am I reading that right and that you have a list of the commands available? Did you manage to figure out the replies from the module? It could be useful to see if it replies with current connection information and the like to closer emulate the xbox lights behaviour.
February 12th, 2012 - 21:40
I’ve made a version of this for PICAXE 08M microcontrollers. It seems the 08M is obsolete these days (too bad, I have so many), but it should be easy to get it to work with another chip.
In addition, I’ve added an option if you hold the button down, it will turn the controllers off.
Here it is: http://pastebin.com/pRXQQ1ha
February 13th, 2012 - 20:55
BTW, this works great on Macs, when paired with the driver from here:
http://tattiebogle.net/index.php/ProjectRoot/Xbox360Controller/OsxDriver
You may still need a PC to get the controller to pair up with the module.
February 14th, 2012 - 01:01
I added some instructions for OS X. Also, an alternative to soldering the wires directly to the board:
http://blog.repulsor.net/2012/02/13/xbox-360-wireless-controller-module-for-os-x/
February 21st, 2012 - 20:40
I cant get this to work with attiny13 from user kuba
February 21st, 2012 - 20:40
please help
February 24th, 2012 - 11:06
Hi
Do you have the source code to adapt to the PIC16F628A PIC16F88?. In my area do not sell el16F628A, if the 16F88 and 16F84A.
PIC will adapt as many as you can so other people are more easily do the project.
I am Spanish-Spain, use translate.google.com. Sorry.
Good work friend.
February 24th, 2012 - 15:23
I cant get this to work with attiny13
the code is from user cuba in post
http://diru.org/wordpress/2011/03/wireless-xbox360-controller-on-a-pc-without-the-commercial-dongle/#comment-205
#include
#include
#include
#include
#define B(x) (1<<x)
#define sync_pin PB1 //sync pin
#define data_pin PB3 //data line
#define clock_pin PB4 //clock line
#define digitalRead(x) (((PINB & B(x)) != 0)?1:0)
#define digitalWrite(x, y) (y == 1 ? (PORTB |= B(x)):(PORTB &= ~B(x)))
int led_cmd[10] = {0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,0}; //Activates/initialises the LEDs, leaving the center LED lit.
int anim_cmd[10] = {0,0,1,0,0,0,0,1,0,1}; //Makes the startup animation on the ring of light.
int sync_cmd[10] = {0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0}; //Initiates the sync process.
void sendData(int cmd_do[])
{
DDRB |= B(data_pin);
PORTB &= ~B(data_pin);
int prev = 1;
for(int i = 0; i < 10; i++)
{
while (prev == digitalRead(clock_pin)); //detects change in clock
prev = digitalRead(clock_pin);
digitalWrite(data_pin, cmd_do[i]);
while (prev == digitalRead(clock_pin)); //detects upward edge of clock
prev = digitalRead(clock_pin);
}
PORTB |= B(data_pin);
DDRB &= ~B(data_pin);
}
int __attribute__((OS_main)) main()
{
DDRB = 0b000000;
DDRB |= 0b1;
PORTB |= B(sync_pin);
_delay_ms(2000);
sendData(led_cmd);
_delay_ms(50);
sendData(anim_cmd);
_delay_ms(50);
for (;;)
{
if ( (PINB&B(sync_pin)) == 0 )
{
sendData(sync_cmd);
_delay_ms(500);
}
}
}
February 27th, 2012 - 11:47
Thanks a lot !!! For sharing your knowledge !
Saved me some bucks !
February 27th, 2012 - 14:16
Great project, thanks for all the work on this!
I got this up and running on a msp430 over the weekend. Finally put that $5 launchpad to good use.
February 27th, 2012 - 23:46
Hah, you got one of those too huh? I’m still looking for a use for mine. Same as the $25 Evalbot.
March 3rd, 2012 - 02:12
Awesome! It totally worked! After a little playing around with the methods here I got it to work. What I found that worked for me is I needed to plug the controller with the play and charge cable in first, then plug the adapter. Otherwise I get a “device not found” error when I plug in my controller and it doesn’t sync. I saved myself alot of money doing this. Thanks.
March 4th, 2012 - 02:03
Glad to see all the positive results and the confirmation on the play and charge kit, just need to obtain the diodes and I will be doing this for sure. however I think i am going to leave the board from the 360 stock and hack together an old usb hub or something to plug it into.
March 4th, 2012 - 20:14
Hiya. I’m also getting a code 10 in the Device Manager after installing the software. I’m curious though, I copied and pasted what you had exactly into the inf file and when I check the hardware ID it says it’s USB/UNKNOWN. Is that to be expected in this situation instead of the one you said? Is there any other way I can troubleshoot this? Should the dongle come on of its own accord after being plugged in / anything? (I don’t even have an xbox, the dead one was my brother’s) I’ve uninstalled the device and deleted the .infs and pnfs from my windows/inf directory and tried it several times, and confirmed that when a new .inf comes in it’s a copy of the modified inf file. Any tips here on how I can diagnose the problem better? I haven’t uninstalled it in safe mode, but that’s about the only recommendation I’ve read I haven’t tried. Thanks in advance.
March 7th, 2012 - 15:50
Unfortunately if it’s showing as USB/UNKNOWN then it’s not being recognised properly. All I can suggest is check your soldering. Sadly, I don’t know much beyond that.
March 7th, 2012 - 09:06
Dear god do I hop you still pay attention to this.
My laptop has a parallel port. Can I hook up the rf module to a db25 connector and shoot the “start sync process” command through it? If so, how? I can get a DB25 connector for pennies, and I’m sure I can find an rf module someone doesn’t need fairly easily too.
March 7th, 2012 - 15:53
Interesting idea. All I can suggest is looking into bit banging with a parallel port. It’s not my area of expertise, nor something I’ve really looked into, but I’ve heard of someone using a parallel port and python to do bit banging before (which is essentially what the Arduino does in my version).
March 8th, 2012 - 10:09
I can look into bitbanging, but I need to know what command needs to be sent to the rf module to make it look for a controller. Most information I find on bitbanging is just blaring information at me. There are people I can talk to to help me out, but they’re going to want to know exactly what information needs to be sent to the rf module, and how it’s expecting that information.
March 8th, 2012 - 16:27
Give the module the signal to listen by pulling the data pin low then send bits on the low clocks, pulling the data pin high after the command to let it know you’re done (after which I put the microcontroller pin into high impedance). The module accepts instructions 10 bits long (I’ve not experimented with longer or shorter commands). The sync command is 0×04/b0000000100.
March 8th, 2012 - 16:54
Thanks alot, dilandou. I’ll report back to you when/if I get my hands on a rf module. I just moved and didn’t have space to pack my xbox360 parts. Some guys around here are trying to charge me upwards of $20 for the rf module. Yea, I know.
I also just found a python library that can interface with the parallel port in the way I need, apparently. Let’s see if I can’t figure this out ;)
March 8th, 2012 - 17:07
Actually, I do have one more question. In your schematics, you’ve got a power wire hooked up to your microcontrollers. Am I going to need that as well? I’m of the understanding that the leftmost spot of the USB points is where the RF module will get the power to perform it’s functions for, and the leftmost spot on the bottom is to…turn it on? I’m not all that sure! I get what the other two spots are for, I just don’t know if I’ll need the “power” one if I’m connecting these points directly to a parallel port.
March 8th, 2012 - 17:22
Whatever else you do with the RF module, the four USB wires need to be connected. While the parallel port -could- supply 3.3V to the module using one of the data pins on constant high, it can’t source anywhere near enough current necessary. Best stick to the USB cable option.
March 8th, 2012 - 17:24
that’s not the power cable I meant, sorry!
The 5 pinouts besides the USB ones. One is the data pin, one is for the clock, and one is labelled “power” on your schematic. That’s the one I’m confused about.
March 8th, 2012 - 17:36
Are you sure you’re looking at one of my diagrams? I don’t remember labelling a pin as “power”. The only thing I can think of is someone else making a diagram and labelling the centre button, which on the Xbox is essentially the power button (which is the button I re-purpose as a sync button).
March 9th, 2012 - 06:09
You know what? I was looking at the wrong schematic!
Alright then. I need to wire pins 5, 6, and 7 to three data pins on the parallel port. I’ll read the input off of pin 7 to determine when the clock is low so that I can send the commands at the right time on pin 6, pulling the data pin low or high, depending.
Before I transmit the data, I’ll pull pin 5 high to…*blank*. I didn’t see you transmit any data on this pin in your arduino code, so I’m not entirely sure of it’s function. Could you explain that to me?
And is the code related to sleeping, waking up, and the various delays specifically for your arduino?
March 9th, 2012 - 15:36
Pin 5 on the module is for the power button in the middle of the lights. I use it as a sync button. It’s a basic to-ground push button, that’s all.
March 9th, 2012 - 15:39
Oh and the sleeping and waking on interrupt functions are Arduino specific. It’s a cheap way to initialise the LEDs then stop the program before it gets to the sync instruction, then resuming when the microcontroller is woken up from an interrupt (and, if it was running on batteries, a good way to reserve power).
March 9th, 2012 - 10:02
Actually, on a completely unrelated note.
Is there a way to just spoof the HID info of the play & charge kit to the driver for the rf board? Just…make it THINK there’s a play and charge kit connected? Someone I just spoke to brought up the possibility that that’s what’s happening. The wireless receiver driver just sees the play and charge kit and sends the command to the rf board itself, telling it it’s okay to start looking for a controller?
March 9th, 2012 - 15:43
Sounds like something worth trying. You’d need to make a USB device for it though. Something like an AVR or PIC running a software USB library and having it give it’s hardware ID as the Play & Charge kit’s. I might have to look into it myself. I have a few ATTiny45s sitting around. Anyone reading this able to post the hardware values of the Play & Charge kit so that others can give it a go?
March 9th, 2012 - 21:17
I’m asking around, but I may be picking one up myself. I don’t know enough x86 ASM to interface with the parallel port the way I need to. I can almost guarantee that someone with the programming know how could definitely get it done.
I sure wish I could find some place that sold the launchpad without having to wait for it in the mail!
I’ll be picking up a play and charge kit once I get my hands on an rf board, so I’ll give you the hardware values once you fill me in on how to get them!
April 3rd, 2012 - 00:05
SOLVED “device cannot start code 10″
I had this problem.
- When USB is NOT connected on RF board, i have 3.4 V on wires (between black and red)
- Whes USB is connected on RF board, i have 2.2 V on wires (between black and red)
How to solve it? Instead of the three I put two diodes (i don’t know what type diode i have).
April 4th, 2012 - 02:50
well i did the thing with the drivers but do i need the arduno to use it and to turn it on or can i just wire it, plug it into the usb port and turn it on using the regular power button ??
April 4th, 2012 - 17:09
The RF unit doesn’t actually have a power button. So long as it’s plugged in, it’s working. The lights won’t do anything without additional circuitry though. There is no external sign of it being powered or working. The arduino is only necessary for making a manual sync button, and controlling the LEDs. Alternatively, you can use a play & charge kit to sync controllers to the PC without the arduino.
April 4th, 2012 - 22:27
but can you tell me where i could get a cheap arduino to do this and where do i solder the connectors fron the RF module to the arduino can you post a link ???
April 5th, 2012 - 05:39
I suggest you read the post and comments of this page: http://diru.org/wordpress/hacking/xbox-360-rf-module-arduino/ (which is linked in the sidebar of this page, if you’d looked).
As for cheap Arduinos, look here and be inspired: http://shop.moderndevice.com/collections/arduino-freeduino/
April 24th, 2012 - 02:56
but can i use a arduino pro mini with this ?????? beacuse i got one so minstead of getting another one will this work
April 24th, 2012 - 05:28
Yes.
April 24th, 2012 - 21:23
how will i have to write to code or can you give me a link to get the code because this is my first arduino
April 24th, 2012 - 21:31
As much as I could go into a long reply explaining exactly what to do, http://arduino.cc/en/Guide/HomePage is a good place to start without me needing to reinvent the wheel.
The code has already been supplied for you here http://diru.org/wordpress/hacking/xbox-360-rf-module-arduino/
April 9th, 2012 - 20:38
Hi all, nice mod, thanks for sharing. I had some difficulties, with vista64bit I’ve got a play and charge kit that was previously installed, I replaced the lines in the inf above, installed the rf unit, plugged in the play and charge kit and it refuses to install a driver for it (I know it doesn’t need a driver as such), so the syncing via the play and charge kit fails.
In your inf edit you put 5 lines of existing code to be replaced by 4 lines of edited code, is this what you meant? As the missing jump device is the play and charge kit? I initially replaced the 5lines with 4, but putting the jump device code back into the inf fails to make it work. I guess I’m going to have to trawl through the registry and inf files to completely uninstall the 360 drivers.
I have however overcome the issue via another PC running vista 32bit, I didn’t remove the %XUSB21.DeviceName.Jump%=CC_Install, USB\Vid_045E&Pid_028F line from the inf file, just replaced the 4 lines in each section above it, installed the RF unit and then the play and charge kit, both controllers sync’d. Plug the RF unit back into my vista 64bit machine, both controllers now sync.
BTW. I’m wondering whether an arduino is overkill for getting manual sync? I wonder if something cheap like an ftdi chip with some bit-bang code might be worth looking at instead?
April 9th, 2012 - 21:00
This is confusing, as I removed the 5th line myself, and recently purchased a play and charge kit in the aims of poking at it’s secrets to see if it’s easily “simulated”. Works just fine for me on Windows 7 64bit. Odd.
And I entirely agree that an Arduino is overkill. It’s just that I had two of them sitting around at the time, as do many hobbyists/geeks. I now have an ATTiny45 soldered to the back of the RF module instead.
April 10th, 2012 - 03:39
I had to reinstall the driver for the RF unit after adding the .jump line back into the inf file, then the play and charge cable installs. I’m not knocking the fact that an arduino has been used, they’re great for messing around with, just thinking of cheaper solutions, although, an attiny45 is very cheap, I think I’ve got one knocking around somewhere, I might just have to solder one in for the fun of it :D
I’m fairly certain that the play and charge cable doesn’t just charge, not sure what it does but it can’t be that simple, the driver only appears in device manager after it’s plugged into a controller.
It’s impossible to press the sync button with the charge cable plugged into the controller, so I think that the charge cable tells the RF unit that it’s got a controller connected and that it should initiate the syncing, one way to test that theory would be for someone to plug in the play and charge cable into a non-sync’d controller but not plug the other end into a PC, plug it into a ‘usb charger’ device instead, an ac plug with a usb socket in it. If a non-syncing controller doesn’t sync with just power and no data lines then you know that there is some interaction between the cable, the controller and the RF unit.
April 10th, 2012 - 05:40
Dave, about 3 or 4 people up in the comments, was thinking about controlling the RF unit with a parallel port. Now -that’s- cheap. And possible. :)
And I know that the play and charge kit does something extra. I’m going to delve into the realm of usb sniffing, eventually, and see who is saying what to who, and if I can fool them into thinking I’m one of them.
April 10th, 2012 - 12:24
If I had a logic analyser I’d have a go with that but I don’t so I’m stuck with theory atm :D I’ve seen images of the inside of the controller end of the play and charge cable, there is an IC in there but whether it’s just a charging IC or perhaps an eeprom (it’s got to ID itself somehow) or a.n.other IC is another question :)
As for Daves idea via parallel, it’s a good idea if you own parallel stuff, if not then you’ve got to get hold of a machine with a P port on it, I think at that point an arduino starts to become the more attractive option.
April 10th, 2012 - 17:52
Hey man. great hack! I had a great time building testing and troubleshooting it. Thanks for documenting it and for being so responsive to the comments. I am using an Arduino Uno and for some reason the sync is not working for me yet but I plan on trying it again with pull up resistors. For the time being I used the plug and charge to get it up and running but I think it would be cool to have the Arduino telling the RF module to run the light show and stuff.
April 10th, 2012 - 18:02
Thanks :D
Odd that sync isn’t working for you, though. External pullup resistors shouldn’t be needed, as the internal pullups are used already in the code (http://arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/DigitalPins explains it, in case you haven’t seen it before). Not sure what’s going on there. Guess external ones are worth a try, in case the ones in your chip are acting up. Maybe try moving the sync button to another pin and see if it works?
April 11th, 2012 - 00:37
Hey got a question about the diodes… I got a few “1N4007′s” but not reading the proper voltage drop, as mentioned once before. Voltage was taken directly after diodes (with out rf module connected) and it is reading about 4.5 volts should these 1N4007′s work similar as the 1N4001′s?. I’m just trying to prevent a fried board.
Could you possibly use the 3.3v straight from the psu? and just omit the 5volt “usb” lines and use only the data lines in the usb?
April 11th, 2012 - 18:54
Odd that you’re not getting the voltage drop. Any 1N4000 series diode should have a ~1.1V forward voltage drop. Either way, if you’re mounting the RF module inside the computer then by all means use the 3.3V line from the PSU.
April 11th, 2012 - 20:53
My thoughts exactly.?! None the less I move forward with this little project. Thanks for code and the quick reply.
April 14th, 2012 - 17:28
hello i have problem when i go to install driver he is saying me DEVICE CANNOT BE STAR CODE ERROR 10 :(
April 14th, 2012 - 17:32
From the comments on this post it would see that error 10 is caused by the RF module not having enough power. Check the voltage getting to the board with a multimeter. It should be around 3.3V. If it’s lower than that, try using less or different diodes. Or feel free to use any other voltage lowering circuit (essentially a voltage divider would work).
April 14th, 2012 - 17:52
there are 4 volts
but not working :(
April 19th, 2012 - 17:23
Unfortunately, error 10 is the generic “There’s a problem, no idea what it is though” error code. The only things you can really do are check soldering. Make sure your polarities are correct. Double check your inf file modification. Reinstall the driver. Etc.
April 19th, 2012 - 11:20
Hi dilandou, just gotta say awesome mod.
so ihave a problem with installing the drivers for the rf unit, i am running
xp32
service pack 3,
i have done and double checked the soldering.
But heres my problem- when i try and install the drivers and direct it to the Xusb21.inf file i keep getting the message “the specifified location does not contain information about your hardware” i am at a loss and wondering if you have any ideas to work around this. any help would be awesome. big respect.
April 19th, 2012 - 17:18
Just to be sure, you have made the modifications to the inf file, right? If you have, and it’s still not working, have a look in device manager and check the hardware IDs of the RF module (which will most likely be listed as an unknown device). It’ll be interesting if they’re different.
April 26th, 2012 - 14:18
Hi, sorry for not replying sooner.
They do have different IDs,
the fr module is-
USB\VID_045E&PID_0291\5&192F622A&0&1
the controller is
USB\VID_045E&PID_028F\6&19AACD&0&2
thanks for your time :)
April 26th, 2012 - 16:24
Not to worry because i randomly got it work. i dont know how?, still i now have a xbox controller for my p.c..
respect and many thanks an awesome mod***
April 24th, 2012 - 17:12
hi
I followed the steps with pic16f628a but it didn’t work! driver is installed and works just fine but there is no light or sync! I have these ICs : attiny13/pic12f675/pic16f628a . so is there a .hex file or code for these ICs ?!
thnks
April 24th, 2012 - 18:30
Check out this comment: http://diru.org/wordpress/hacking/xbox-360-rf-module-arduino/#comment-712 It’s for the 12f629, but it shouldn’t be too hard to port to the 16f628, if it needs porting at all. Maybe just change the defines and the fuses?
April 24th, 2012 - 22:03
thanks but it seems to be fake. I tried and didn’t work! is there anything else?( I just need the code in .c or others but not .hex so I could change the ports and use it on my IC )
April 24th, 2012 - 22:09
Code for ATTiny13, as in the comments: http://diru.org/wordpress/2011/03/wireless-xbox360-controller-on-a-pc-without-the-commercial-dongle/#comment-625
April 27th, 2012 - 20:41
this is an awesome project for even a noob, that would be my category, i can solder but i have no code experience or equipment, (cept a quick bash on yabasic on playstation2 years ago), my experience with this mod so far are…..
two boards, one works 100% with three diodes, the other gave me code 10 fault from the start, the only thing i can note to you more experienced guys is that when digging into its properties on the details tab its stated that the devices power state was d3, witch i found is a sleep state, maybe thats what these few ”code 10” errors are, i think it may be in a forced sleep state due to some form of power or chip failure on the rf board.
now here’s where i would like some help with my working board, i’d like to maybe have someone send me a preprogrammed chip to solder to the back of my rf board, i’d gladly pay for the chip in advance, as long as you dont work for annonymous lol, all i want is the power button to be sync and for the lights to do there thing, please and thankyou
April 28th, 2012 - 22:20
just want to say to you ”error code 10” sufferer’s that you should try using shielded usb cable and soldering the shielding to the rf board connectors shield connections, as i said i had one that was code 10 with any amount of 1n4001 resistor’s, i tried from 4 resistor’s down to one and had no luck, just swapped to shielded usb cable and its working 100%.
another observation i’ve made is that the square above the connection’s, commonly referred to as the ”aerial” is in fact an interference shield, it has no wired connection to the rf board other than the white melted-flat plugs (3), the receivers aerial is on the flip side of the rf board,
i removed mine from the code 10 board when i thought it was dead, since i’ve solved the problem and got the board working its shown no drop in range over my 100% board,
April 29th, 2012 - 14:59
Hi
I have a question. based on /Update 5/, If I want to enable sync on RF without ICs, all I have to do is just to connect controller to play & charge kit and it’ll sync ?! So no extra ICs are needed ?!
April 29th, 2012 - 15:09
That is correct.
April 29th, 2012 - 16:20
is there a reason you havn’t responded to my comments? not trying to be rude
April 29th, 2012 - 16:46
Mostly because I didn’t really have a reply for them.
Interesting results with shielded cable. There would have to be a couple of other examples of it working before being ruled out as coincidence though, I think. As for the pre-programmed chip, I’m yet to clean up my code for the ATTINY45, and as it works as it is I’m not massively inclined to do so. If anyone else wants to do this for you they’re welcome to comment themselves. :P
April 29th, 2012 - 17:14
thanks, again i wasn’t trying to be rude, i’ve been researching this for weeks and this seems to be the most useful page, i’m planning on programming a chip myself, thats what i’m researching now, could i possibly pick your brain on three things before i dive in?
firstly i know i’ll need a programmer, will this do for a pic16f628a?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260995809488?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_7571wt_1037
secondly what programming software would you suggest for a newbie? i can figure the rest out myself i think, i just don’t want to plunge in with the wrong hardware, thanks again,
April 29th, 2012 - 17:17
lol, i know i said 3 things and asked only two……. the third was going to be ”should i go ahead and use the pic16f628a……
April 29th, 2012 - 17:26
Unfortunately I’m not so hot on PIC programmers. When I was playing around with them I was just using a development board I picked up from Maplin years ago. http://www.maplin.co.uk/k8048-pic-microcontroller-programmer-kit-37192
There are cheaper alternatives, such as the TI Lauchpad for a whopping $4.30 http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/MSP430_LaunchPad_(MSP-EXP430G2) (which someone else has managed to use somewhere in the comments), or the USBtinyISP for AVR http://www.adafruit.com/products/46
As for software, go with whatever chip you’re using recommends. Once you get into it, then look around for something that suits you better.
April 29th, 2012 - 18:09
thankyou very much, this is the first time i’ve looked into ic programming so your advice is invaluable to me at this stage, wich brings me to ask if i really should be using pic or ATtiny,
April 29th, 2012 - 18:23
That comes entirely from preference. Look up comparisons and you’ll find it’s all opinion. Sure there are pros and cons between them, but it’s best for you to decide on them. I personally prefer AVR, but mostly because that’s what I’ve gotten used to.
April 29th, 2012 - 18:39
i’m going to go with the pic16 as thats what i’ve seen more detailed circuitry diagrams for like this …..
http://forums.xbox-experts.com/download/file.php?id=1296&mode=view
thanks again mate
April 29th, 2012 - 20:15
Hi
I’ve successfully installed driver for RF module and windows recognizes my receiver when I connect it. Do I have to modify Xusb21.inf file ?!
April 29th, 2012 - 21:41
It recognises the RF module without modification to the inf file? Or it recognises that there’s an unknown device? If it’s an unknown device, yes you must modify the inf.
April 30th, 2012 - 09:48
It recognizes the RF module in Device manager as xbox wireless receiver. is it OK ?
April 30th, 2012 - 16:31
Odd, and interesting. Only thing to do is give syncing a try. If it works, then away you go. If not, try modifying the inf file. A quick request, however: Could you tell me the hardware ID of the module? Go to it’s details tab in properties and look at the hardware ID in the dropdown box.
May 2nd, 2012 - 13:04
Hi
sorry, I don’t have the Module anymore and I decided to go with The original wireless receiver because I was frustrated, But here are pictures of my project. Hope it helps
http://i.imgur.com/oNMM2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5W8a9.jpg
Thanks
May 2nd, 2012 - 15:36
Shame you didn’t keep hold of it. I always find I’ll go back and tinker with things I didn’t finish later on with a clear head. Nice effort though. :D
May 2nd, 2012 - 13:11
Hi this post really informative for xbox 360 wireless controller. thank you for your post.
May 2nd, 2012 - 15:36
You’re welcome. :D
May 5th, 2012 - 15:44
what about using resistors instead of leds
May 5th, 2012 - 15:50
LEDs? You mean the diodes? You could make a voltage divider with resistors, if you wanted to do it that way.
May 5th, 2012 - 17:25
hi im having a problem with the rf module i have split my usb connected alligator wires to each lead black went to ground white went to D – green to D + and red to a led and another wire to +5vDc but it wont turn on i have also done the file editing but when i press the button on the rf module it wont turn on or flash the lights
and sorry for my poor English
May 5th, 2012 - 17:29
Without a microcontroller to tell the module to flash the LEDs, there is no visual sign that it’s powered on or working. The power button is just a connection to ground; it’s useless unless you connect it to something.
So long as the unit is plugged in it’s “on”.
May 10th, 2012 - 08:06
There is another driver out which lets you customize the controller even more, it’s called x360wc for windows 7 (google it). I made a few modifications to the driver inf and I was able to use it. I just had to replace a few entries.
Replace this:
ClassGuid = {745a17a0-74d3-11d0-b6fe-00a0c90f57da}
With this:
ClassGuid = {D61CA365-5AF4-4486-998B-9DB4734C6CA3}
And this:
%ProductMSFT_0719% = X360WC_045E_0719,USB\VID_045E&PID_0719
%ProductMSFT_028F% = X360PCK_045E_028F,USB\VID_045E&PID_028F
With this:
%ProductMSFT_0719% = X360WC_045E_0719,USB\Vid_045E&Pid_0291
%ProductMSFT_028F% = X360WC_045E_0719,USB\UNKNOWN
And finally this:
System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\Joystick\OEM\VID_045E&PID_0719
With this:
System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\Joystick\OEM\Vid_045E&Pid_0291
Here is the driver I modified for download if people don’t feel like doing it manually.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bdz21l353lcn5g2
May 10th, 2012 - 08:13
The driver will also give you control over what the triggers should be mapped out to either z-axis or buttons. This is great for gaming because most games don’t support the third axis. The center button is now accessible and can be mapped out. But that means you don’t get the battery meter that comes wight the official drivers. Also I would like to mention that the rumble isn’t mapped out correctly in the inf file so it doesn’t work. I would to fix that if anyone has any idea to do so.
May 10th, 2012 - 16:14
hey, i made this before but blew the board and done it properly this time round, here is my results using a t4 box for containing the circuit =]
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.234884393277919.38662.100002690810583&type=1&l=7dad55bf03
i left a link back here for people to try it themselves =]
May 11th, 2012 - 00:02
thanks for your help/advice dilandou, i’ve got mine syncing with the power button through a pic12f629, its a bit glitchy thought, when i press sync on the pad it starts its led’s off and then i press sync on the unit and it starts very briefly and stops, flashes, and goes off for around 15-20 seconds before all led’s light again, and it doesnt seem to sync the pad…..
however when i restart my comp and remove batteries from the pad, reinsert them, once the usb powers up (powering the rf unit) the pad will just connect the second i turn it on, so its working, kinda, thanks again……..